Never Start with 5S!

Jon, you state: “Many, including myself, would say you need to do 5S early in the lean journey to set standards and put some discipline (being the 5th S) in place.” I think this is the wrong idea. The kind of discipline we are talking about, or should be talking about, is self-discipline. You can’t “put that in place.” It must come from within. All you can put into place is compliance (which is often, if not always, temporary); you are then compelled to “put into place” external “discipline” against those who are caught not complying (which may just lead to more clever avoidance strategies). Such an approach increases the likelihood of resistance, and if “successful,” it continues the pattern of command and control, which is likely to further diminish questioning and deep thinking from those upon whom it’s been mandatorily imposed. It reinforces “Just do what I tell you.” This is not true self-discipline. All of this is well-known to social psychologists; it is supported by a huge body of research. As Deming said, knowledge of psychology is important.
Instead, people should come to the conclusion on their own that 5S has great merit and it should be pursued voluntarily, not by being “put into place.” It is far more likely to be sustained if it comes about from those who are to live by it. This too is well-known. A sense of autonomy is an essential ingredient of intrinsic motivation and engagement, without which Lean can’t succeed long-term. Imposing things on others should be kept to an absolute minimum. Knowledge of psychology tells us this; respect for people demands this.
Harish touches on what I believe is the real reason why 5S is so popular at the beginning of Lean journeys. “It is really easy for consultants to show and tell using 5S: ” Lean is becoming, or has become, more of a way for consultants to earn a living, than for organizations to better contribute to society. Consultants need to make their needs secondary to their clients–it should be “Customers First.” Consultants must show self-discipline before they teach it.

Jon: First, let me apologize for unintentionally posting as “Anonymous”; I was in a rush and forgot to fill in the blanks.
Yes, externally imposed standards are necessary. I didn’t say we shouldn’t have them; I said they should be kept to an absolute minimum. Of course we need and should have quality and safety standards, and we need to obey laws, and protect the environment, etc. But 5S is not an absolute need. As many others have already pointed out elsewhere, 5S is a countermeasure. To jump to such a countermeasure (and worse yet, mandate it) without following a structured problem solving/PDCA process — e.g., first determining and clarifying the problem (including the ideal situation, current condition, and gap), doing a root cause analysis, considering other countermeasures, etc. — just runs counter to my understanding of Lean problem solving, and should be avoided (except as a temporary form of containment).
I didn’t say Harish was making a direct judgment as to whether starting out with 5S is good or bad. All I said was he touched upon something. I then used it to form an hypothesis; it’s mine and not his, and I take responsibility for it.
I realize you can only speak to your own experience and interactions. I too can only speak from mine. And based on them, I think my hypothesis is a reasonable one. I don’t claim it as fact.
By the way, I am assuming we are talking about Lean in general, not just in a manufacturing environment. I think in non-manufacturing organizations, it may be even more important to hold off on 5S.
Thanks for continuing the discussion on this interesting topic. Your blog continues to be an excellent source of provocative thought for me.

I´ll participate in two kaizen in portugal in ogma industria aeronautica de portugal, I´ll in september i am going to participate in another one i am going to be the leader of this kaizen ,the main goal is to implement a moving line in wings assembly,Can some one give me some help about this.

@ Karen,
From what I have understood, 5S focuses to bring out visually what is the root cause of a problem; eg. additional time taken for the process to finish because needed equipment are not found in the proper location, more movement required to find the required equipment as it applies to the production floor. In a way, if 5S is applied in the office area and everything placed in its proper location, a pending document requiring process to complete will be easily located and identified where it should be found. Processes crossing departamental boundaries will be easily recognized by the piles of documents pending approvals from that department. Imagine how hard it would be to locate that particular document to be processed if the next department required to act on it does not practice 5S? Change can not be imposed on that department from your side…this should coma as a “Pull” initiative or as an internal committment from that department. This is where “hoshin” and the lean leader focuses on. But the most important thing is that lean should start from somewhere first – even from your department as an example- and then the rest can follow from your own initiative. Talk about sustainability…well that is again another subject you would have a fun time tackling in the future. “Kaizen” spirit is all about having fun discovering viable things to improve on and keeping the spirit alive…

Thanks for picking up on my points. Great additions. I’m amazed at how much emotion this point has stirred up. I’ve received everything up to and including hate mail. But I think the debate is worth having. Those in a lean profession must continually challenge that profession to the most effective path forward.
Jamie

… Jamie is quite right with his thought!
Before moving on in the lean journey, in which 5S is certainly a major step there are other things necessary.
Bringing people’s assumptions “into the room” while having the whole system in the room is way more productive. It may “hurt” one or the other, however without a solid foundation of mutual understanding the different activities such as 5S will lead into the “desert” and nothing much will be left for coming generations.
Cheers, Ralf

We went through 5s, everyone was forced to spend hours labeling up bins, printers, pens, paper. It soon faded out as it was over the top and just annoyed everyone. I could see how it may look “good” when being a visiting head of the business, but in reality the extra time spending maintaining the 5 pens in the draw and creating new posters every time something changes far exceeds any benefits. Be realistic, people will say “yes”, “really good” just to shut you up, any 5s audits/checklists will just be blagged by people because the can’t be bothered as they see no benefit. This is exactly the same with any huddle/notice boards and problems and countermeasures boards. Don’t be naive save you time and resources, don’t bother.